pre-rant

[The Moose1]

So, 3 more sleeps to PEC.  Do me a favour?  All you headphone wearing runners, leave them at home on Sunday....PLEASE.  I don't like stepping on you and I don't like you stepping on me.  Besides, you're missing a great experience, and the artificial rythm may be slowing you down...listen to what your body says, not your iPod.  Please.

Mike

[raceluvr]

listening to music while running a marathon is a VERY personal issue and I don't think anyone has the right to ask people to leave their earphones at home.  I have had many people bump into me (and vice versa) who were not wearing headphones at all.  I think the #'s speak for themselves. I'd say the majority of runners wear them so you "non headphone wearers" just need to accept it and move on.  I for one HATE running without them.  I can't help that.  And I can't change that.  And I shouldn't be expected to change.  Just like I would never expect you to change what works for you.  It's my personality...just as your personality allows you to enjoy running with just the thoughts in your head and the sounds of nature around you. And before you assume I haven't tried it, I have!  I ran two marathons with music and two without and my headphone wearing marathons were by far my most pleasurable.  Like I said it's very PERSONAL and I'm not going to suffer through 4.5 hours of running without my beloved (and VERY inspirational at times) music just because someone else thinks I should be enjoying the sounds around me.  Get real.

[Sandy]

It is an interesting point and I know there are a ton of runners who would agree with you.  Unfortunately the USATF disagrees and had banned them at many major marathons, the penalty being a lifetime ban to the race of the infraction.  In Dec they amended the ban and will now leave it up to the race director of the individual marathon unless it is a Championship race (ie Boston).  So depending on the race it may not be up to you.  On a personal note I overheard a group of spectators at a major race complaining about all the headphone wearing participants because they felt there was no point in them (the spectators) being there because the runners couldn't hear them cheer.

[The Moose1]

You know, normally I'd let this go.
Ya, it's personal, but there are no "racers" wearing them, mostly joggers, and far less than half of the runners I see at any event.  As I've said before, I love wearing my iPod during training runs while I'm by myself, but I've also said, "if you want to run by yourself, do so."  Why would you bother entering an event to run alone?  You sure aren't going to get $75 worth of shirts and water.
Honestly, it makes very little difference to me most of the time.  Like all the other rude behavior that's becoming accepted as normal in our society, even the mighty B.A.A. realizes it is fighting a losing battle and no longer enforces it's no headphone rule, unless you're a serious racer expecting prize money, then you're disqualified.  I do understand how comforting your personal music selection can be while all alone, but when Dave from London comes by, and helps drag you 15 kms at your perfect race pace with inane chatter and infectious enthusiasm, you, my dear, have missed the marathon experience.
I see the kids in line at Wonderland with their friends, all ignoring each other, and texting while listening to their iPods...why bother inviting friends when all you're going to do is ignore them?  Why go out to dinner when all you do is chat on the phone?  Order a pizza and stay home, no one is impressed that you have a friend... soon the person who called will be your only friend anyway.  Don't invite them to dinner.  On the other hand, there's no danger of getting a call at that point.  Your only friend will be facing you anyway.
Now, I know that most of this rant is not directed at the previous post.  I also know that asking people to take an event like this seriously is not realistic.  But think about what would happen if one of your kids wore their iPod in the ice at hockey practice...or if Geatan Boucher went speed skating with one on....This is a race.  This is the most brutal (okay Ultra marathoners I know you're in a class of your own, I'm gonna call you extreme athletes and disqualify you from this statement, just like the Olympic committee) event in the running world.  This event killed a man in it's first incarnation.  I find wearing headphones a mockery of the event.  Why even enter if you aren't going to take it seriously?

Wanna know what set me off?

I asked very nicely.  I even said please.  And you decided to verbally beat me like a government mule.  After the race (that you didn't even run). I really am sick and tired of the iPod wearers lining up at the front, and getting in the way when they can't hear the runners coming up behind.  Maybe it takes you 4.5 hours because you aren't performing at your best, because you have no idea what is really going on both around you, and in you...Maybe if you took your heaphones off and started listening to your own thoughts, you'd realize how offensive what you write really is.

I realize that I can be extremely offensive, but it really takes a while to get me there.  I'm being offensive now because I've had enough of your arrogance and ignorance.  You treat people on this forum like crap, for no reason, then get offended when they point out how wrong, or offensive you've been.  For some strange reason people seem to be afraid of you.  I'm not, and I call it like I see it.  you want me to stop "picking on you". Stop winding me up with your foolish and ill thought posts.

I know allot of nice people who will take offense to this, and to them I'm sorry, but if you are going to continue to behave like a spoiled teenager who thinks nothing through, I'll continue to expose you for the fool you are.

Mike
(yup, signed it again, and my picture is still in the same place, coward)

[Jane]

I agree with Mike.  But to me it is mainly a matter of safety. 

I know everyone is different and we all like to experience situations in different ways.  I have tried wearing a headset and could only take the music in my ears for about a half hour before it started to drive me nuts.  However, when I did wear them, no matter how low I put the music, I felt like I was not totally in control or totally aware of my surroundings.  I cannot tell you how many times people with headsets have veered over in front of me while I was running in a race.  If they didn't have the headsets on, they would have heard me talking (yes, sorry but I am usually talking to someone while running) and known that I was there.

When we ran at the Toad this weekend, there were people there who were wearing their headsets.  Not a good situation when you have guys who can run a hilly 25K run in 1:28 and they are flying.  When they called out "On your left" do you think those runners with headsets heard them?  We had to really scream at a couple of them and even then I am not sure that they actually heard us.  Hellooooo...... not only are you creating a dangerous situation but you are out in a beautiful conservation area with birds singing, branches and leaves crunching under your feet, people laughing and talking and you are missing ALL of it because you have music thumping in your ears! 

Maybe it is because I usually run with someone that I don't feel I need the music.  I have had really great conversations with many friends and especially my daughter when we have been running.  If we stuck those earphones in our ears and set out, we would have missed that.  Even in races where I have run by myself I have enjoyed listening to other people's conversations for amusement.  Or as Mike mentioned above, I also have talked to perfect strangers.  After all, they are runners too.  We have that commonality. 

I also agree with Sandy.   In the races we have run, we have heard all those people who are out there clapping, cheering and telling us we are almost there (even when we know we aren't).  I cannot tell you how happy they look when we acknowledge them and yell thanks for coming out and cheering for us!  Their faces light up because we have shown we appreciate them being there for us and they cheer even harder!  I am trying to picture a race of 10,000 people, everyone with headsets trudging along, and no spectators, because why would they bother coming out? 

As far as wearing headsets while running alone, as I said above, I feel that there is a loss of awareness of your physical surroundings there.  Everything I have read from people who are involved with personal security and wellbeing says DON'T WEAR HEADPHONES WHEN OUT RUNNING/WALKING.  Not only are you less aware of traffic, but you have more chance of being attacked without even realizing it is coming.   

That's just my two cents. 

[Sandy]

 "I am trying to picture a race of 10,000 people, everyone with headsets trudging along, and no spectators, because why would they bother coming out? "

It's called the gym...on a smaller scale.

[The Moose1]

Well said Jane.  I skipped the safety part on purpose, mostly because I've gone that route before and got nothing but flak from the iPod brigade.


Mike

[Kate]

OK.  I do wear an iPod when I am out running alone on longer runs.  A barely audible chorus of assorted tunes, but some background noise to give me something to focus on when I get bored or lonely.  (To give you an idea as to volume, I can hear the flap of the swan's wings as it takes off out of the Bay.)

BUT when it comes down to possibly standing in the way of another fellow athlete attaining their hard sought after goal ... I am happy that Mike posted his plea, that I read it, and that I left my iPod at home on Sunday.  Had a few other runners of similar pace to mine left theirs at home too, I might have had a less lonely trek through the County Sunday morning.

Congratulations, Mike (and Janet!) on your success!  To both of you ... "Good Luck at Boston!!"

[raceluvr]

WOW, that's all i can say.  sorry that you find me ignorant, ill informed and arrogant.  I was simply putting my two cents worth in, just as you did.  I re-read my post about a hundred times and I'm still not sure why it angered you so.  Perhaps you were having a bad day.  I'm just sorry you are so angry, period.

[The Moose1]

Yup, you caught me on a bad day.  I'm sorry.

CAPS LOCK is like yelling, and I don't like being yelled at, especially when I'm asking nicely.  Maybe I took that the wrong way.

Again, sorry if I misunderstood.

BTW, if you take a look at the start line of the marathon, far less than half the participants wear headphones.  The numbers do speak for themselves, and you are in the minority on this one.  This is a serious sporting competition, and I think the majority still respect it as such.  I'm no Haile Gebrselassie, but I'd like to run like him.  He thinks marathons are serious.  He doesn't wear headphones.  Neither do I.  I think it's disrespectful to the event and the other participants to take a marathon so casually.  I know that it is my opinion that they should be banned, but I'm pretty sure that every major sports governing body will agree that competition and headphones should not be together.  There are no CD players in NASCAR, no iPods at the Masters, or at Wimbledon.  No MC Hammer playing during the Kentucky Derby (although he used to race his horses there), or music of any kind during the play at the Yardman on Saturday nights.  I'm sure there are others, but the only competitions I can think of that include music are figure skating and dance.  (Feel free to update that list, I'm always willing to learn.)

As for the deaf argument, sorry, that's a nonstarter.  (I know, not this thread?) Deaf athletes don't choose to be that way.  They are already at a disadvantage in so many ways in this world, to drag them into a debate about people who (in my opinion) don't take this competition seriously is a tremendous disservice to them.  Did you know that Jim Kite is the only legally deaf man to ever play in the NHL?  Deaf people are considered to be disabled for a variety of reasons, and don't play on a level playing field with the hearing for a variety of reasons (some of which may not be valid).  I hope they rattled the foundations every time he scored.

For you to tell me to accept something and move on, or "Get real" in response to a polite request, well, that rattled my cage a little to.  I said please, twice.  It appeared to me, you didn't ask me anything, you told me.  I don't like being told to do things, especially things I don't think are right.  Again, my opinion, and again, sorry if I took this the wrong way.

I can, and will ask many people, many things in this life.  Yes, it is my right to ask almost anyone, almost anything. I was perfectly within my rights to make this request, and expected far less (perceived) venom in response.  I even gave a valid reason why I was asking.  I know I won't get everyone to do as I ask, I don't expect that.  I expect that some people will do as I ask without questions, some people will question then do, some people will question and decide not to, and some will not think at all about my reasons, and decide not to.  These are all valid responses.  I do expect a little courtesy in return though.  Not demands and impossible statements like ?I can't help that. And I can't change that.?

I was taught that the only thing I couldn't do was fly.  Everything else just required more effort.  I believe that you are unwilling to change this part of who you are, I can respect that.  There are things I do,and believe, that I don't want to change either.  I can only ask that you reconsider something, and offer reasons why I think you should.

As for being bumped by non-headphone wearers, I think I can offer a valid explanation.  Most collisions during a race are caused by someone making an unexpected, or unnoticed move.  It isn't much of a stretch to believe that someone fully aware of the sights an sounds around them are less likely to step in front of someone else.  Now, there can be many different reasons we don't hear the train coming, but if you're concentrating on getting water into your mouth at 15kph, and you can't hear the footfalls of someone coming up on your left at 16 kph, and you suddenly step left (out of stride) to kick a cup, while the faster runner is also taking a drink?See it coming?  Could it have been avoided if the slower runner could hear?  Maybe.  Maybe if the faster runner looks up in time, she can move fast enough to avoid anyway, but after 3 hours of running, our thoughts can easily be elsewhere.  Do you want to miss your BQ because someone stepped out in front of you?  I think the odds go way up that the collision is avoided if we take the earplugs out of the equation.

What I read into your post was someone who YELLED at me, told me what to do, disrespected my efforts, and the efforts of the athletes around her, and backed her main argument with shaky conjecture.  Oh, and all this after she sat home while I ran my tail off for over 3 hours.  That was why I went with my "inside voice" and told you part of what I was really thinking. 
I don?t expect anyone to change.  I only ask.  I sometimes say please (in this case twice).  I do read, and re-read my posts before posting them to be sure I?m making my point without angering too many people.  After all, my name and picture are on every post.

Again, sorry if I misunderstood.

Mike

[raceluvr]

I didn't sit home while you ran your tail off...I did an 11 mile run that very same morning.  I started at around 8 so I was definitely not sitting at home....

Even though I won't have to worry about missing my BQ because someone bumped me (I will never, ever be a Boston qualifier), I do believe I take the marathon thing seriously.  I train, every year, for 20 weeks, many of those weeks in the dead of winter, running 4-5 times a week.  Some Sundays see me away from my family for over 3hours.  That's fairly serious if you ask me.  I may not be fast, but I respect the distance and take the marathon seriously.  Just because I wear headphones doesn't change that.  Please don't tell me you think the only people who take the marathon seriously are those who don't wear headphones and those who are aiming for something as big as Boston?

What I meant by "accept it" is this...you cannot change the headphone situation.  It drives you crazy, but why waste so much energy being angry about it?  It will NEVE, ever go away.  I didn't mean to be rude...I was only trying to say it's never going to go away...there's nothing you can do about it.  (like lines at Tim Hortons...)

As Steve Winwood said...roll with it baby.  And you're right, it's good to vent.  But wow, try to be a bit kinder with your words.  They still hurt even on-line.

[cucina]

Okay, everyone go to their respective corners. Now lets all agree to disagree. This topic,running to music, will never EVER get resolved because it is a matter of personal choice. Your opinion could relate to safety issues, cadence, or just some down right love of the music it is personal and may not always seem right to you but you gotta remember we have to regulate people to not smoke in the car with their little babies.
I for one am so thankful that I have a choice and am able to exercise it.This is something that we all have and most often can enjoy but it will always be open to dialogue that may or may not lead to a difference of opinion.

With that being said I really dislike sausages now some of you might say that you love sausages, great please eat them all just don't expect me to like them. I could go on and talk about what I think the health risk of eating sausages are or the disgusting taste of them and you could go on and tell me that there is nothing wrong with eating sausages and they are delicious and we would both have valid arguments.

Soooooooooo my friends this one has run(no pun intended)its course we all love music( let's talk about your choice of music here....how could you even think about listening to...no I'm just kidding) some of us while we run and some of us don't ...amen.

But I haven't finished about the sausages...okay you all know I don't like them right? Do you care? Not likely but that's ok I love running and we all agree we love running.

Peace.

[Craig]

I like sausages. But I never listen to them when I run or bike.

[Jeff]

Craig that surprises me, I was sure you wouldn't like sausages!

[Newt]

Sausages.....how do you fit them in your ears?????

I guess if I was listening to sausages it would be almost pointless wearing my bear bell through the woods, so then most of my run would be much more peaceful. I hate that jingle, jingle, jingle. At some point I may actually have some company and then be forced into speed work, where failure isn't an option.....

Peace
Peter