Achy knees for 1-2 days after run

[NancyR]

I've only been running for 3 weeks. 3 times per week, starting at 20 minutes per run, up to 30-35 minutes per run now, and in the last week, a few hours after a run, my knees feel a bit achy, by the next morning moderately achy and by the second day back to normal... only to begin again. I have been using a "magic bag" and it feels nice and soothing.  I hate ice..

Any idea why, or what to do to overcome..or will this fade away once my legs build up more strength and stamina...get used to running?

Some background, I walk a lot, 5-10km every single day, have for years and I bike a bit, maybe 25km per week -I have decent shoes, I think, about $150 Nike Bowerman Series.. but maybe I need to go back to Saucony or Asics.. I like to use my ipod with the sensor though..

Thanks,
Nancy

[The Moose1]

Well, in week 3 you should probably dial it back a little bit anyway, let your body recover.  You could try having a cold bath right after your run to reduce any swelling, but I'd guess you've just gone a little too far a little too fast.
I find the "magic bag" isn't quite cold enough for me, so I use frozen peas (corn works just as well, but there's a chance I might eat that....LOL).
Primarily, if there's no real pain (stabbing), I'd really suggest going back to week 1 effort for a week, or maybe even less, then start again the following week at somewhere between week 2 and week 3's effort.

No more than 3 weeks of effort before a recovery week next time out.

Good luck.

Mike

[NancyR]

Thanks for your response Mike.  I am due for a run tomorrow, I will dial it back to 20 and see how that goes. (I run with a group Tuesday nights, and are to get 2 other runs in before the following Tuesday) LOL funny about the corn, I like corn too, so peas it will be.

Nancy

[Sandy]

It may not be the brand of your shoes and definately not how much you paid for them but either the age (500-800k or 4 to 6 months) or the biomechanics.  They can be the most expensive, most popular shoe going but if they don't fit your biomechanics they are no good for you.

Depending on where on your knee it is will depend on what issue you may be heading towards.  Hopefully Bryan will weigh in on this but in general if you are feeling soreness under or below the knee cap...you need to stretch your quads out.  There is never anything wrong with trying the less approach as your tendons and ligaments need to catch up to the work load just don't stop unless you have a professional tell you you need to.  Always run in your pain free range, distance, time frame.  If ice feels good use it, if heat feels good use it.  If it persists.....see someone.  Massage therapist would be my first suggestion.  I know you are running with the One to One group so chat with your instructor and she can suggest some specific stretches for you.

[NancyR]

Hey Sandy,

The shoes are relatively new, a bit of an obsession having new shoes. Might have 300km on them, but I totally get where you are coming from. Certainly if it persists I will come have you check out my biomechanics. Happily.

It is mostly under the knee and up the front (beside knee cap) sides. Will insert a pic to show.

The heat feels very good, but I always hear ICE... glad to hear heat is OK, love heat.

Here is a photo - thanks for the help.

[QATS3]

Hi Nancy,
Just browsing the forums and saw yours regarding knee pain.
Looking at the picture you have posted it could be a bit of a patellar tendon irritation, seeing that it is along both sides of the patella (kneecap) and at the bottom of it as well. Stretching the quads should help reduce the stress, using ice after running should help reduce the iritation. And as Mike has said don't do too much too soon...everyone is different and you have to listen to your body, so even if you are in a running group you may have problems that none of the others have.
Hope you are running pain free soon.
Cheers,
Bryan

[NancyR]

Thanks Brian,

I will stretch my quads before and after this morning, heading out for a 30 minute or so run. I had been running Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday but decided to allow an extra day this week and go Sunday instead.

When I get back I will us a bag of frozen peas and see how that goes.

Thanks everyone!

Nancy

[NancyR]

I am back, ran about 25 minutes, instead of 30, no stops, was a bit of a dull ache getting going, but it faded quite a bit. I stretched my quads for about 3-5 min before and after and then iced for 10 minutes. I am feeling pretty good. The first thing I noticed was no pain going up and down stairs... a good sign.  Will keep at this (stretching and icing)

THANKS to you all, a great bunch.

Nancy

[NancyR]

Just an update:

Got new shoes, not 100% if I needed them but who could pass up an opportunity to have a new pair? (Got them at Tri & Run yesterday - http://estores.wws5.com/triandrun/wecs.php?store=trinrun&action=display&target=883722690243) Seems I was wearing my runners likely too small, went from a 6.5 or a 7 to a 7.5)

We ran last night, target was 35 minutes, and I did it! Was a little uncertain at first, new shoes but I did it and felt like a million bucks afterward.

Did my before and after stretching, and iced when I got home, felt good.

Woke up a bit stiff and coming down the stairs was slightly painful, one Advil took care of 75% of it.

So onward and upward!

Will work on some cross training, biking and strengthening my quads.

Happy running!!

[raceluvr]

just my opinion, but  ASICS = world's best running shoe.  Ever.

[NancyR]

Opinions welcomed!

[The Moose1]

Looks like you're upping the time again.  I think that's a bad idea, based on what you've said so far.
Recovery is a HUGE part of running successfully.  In order to run faster or farther, you need to stress the muscles, then let them recover before stressing them again.  If you're body isn't liking the longer distances so it hurts after, go back to a shorter distance for a week and recover.  It's okay if it hurts while you're doing it, but if it hurts for 2 days you over-did it.  In the long run (if you'll pardon the pun) you're only taking the long route to your goals.  Having to back off or quit because you're injured will not make you a better runner.
If you insist on upping the time or distance quickly, try just doing it for 1 run a week (Sunday long run anyone?) then take the next day or two off (no running) and do shorter distances for the rest of your weekly runs.  That way you can see the progression, and worry less about those sore knees for most of the week.  As you get better, you can gradually increase the week-day runs a little bit, but for now I'd keep the short runs under 20 minutes, and follow the 10% rule on your long run only.

Good luck,

Mike

[NancyR]

Mike, I guess I am anxiously excited. I am really enjoying this new challenge, but I am getting what you are saying. Sometimes you have to knock twice lol sorry.

I did notice that I hurt less timewise after Tuesdays run, a bit the next morning, but after a leisurely walk and a short bike ride I seemed to be fine, I was surprised, no pain on the stairs. No throbbing or dull ache. Plus this morning, no pain...

I definitely do not want to take the long way to my goal nor do I want to be injured.

I like your idea of a long run and 2 shorter runs. I will do my longer run on Tuesday with the group and aim for shorter runs for my homework runs.

I do appreciate your followup, thanks.

Oh ya, I agree, the magic bag does not get very cold... (I've always used it hot for other things) but nope, not cold enough, the peas worked nicely. 

Nancy

[The Moose1]

Glad I could help.

Is it part of your plan to go through all the colours?   

I'm becoming somewhat of an expert on over-use injuries, although they've slowed a little as I get older and wiser.  Soon I hope to complete my catalogue so I can get down to the business of helping others avoid all the things I've done wrong.  Besides, they all hurt, and I am getting tired of the aches.

Mike

[Kate]

Can I borrow your catalogue Mike?